You Are Effortless Boundless Awakeness
Okay, let’s just take some deep breaths. You don’t have to do it like this, you can do it any way you want. I was just having kind of an intense conversation. It’s just kind of moving some energy here, and then do a little movement. The crazy movement we do, which is anything your body wants to do that feels good—just do it—even if it’s sitting still. But don’t exercise or stretch, instead, let your body just express whatever feels good. Find yourself in your body, moving, keep moving a little longer. And then, as usual, what we kind of do is start to just get into spinal movement. Then with the spinal movement, we make our spines feel good. Spines like to feel like liquid, so the less it feels tight or solid, and the more it feels relaxed and fluid, the better.
Then, just let the circles or the movements, the S-curves—whatever it’s doing—let it get smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller, until you can’t actually tell if your spine is still moving or not. And then, stay there, where it’s still fluid, still relaxed, still supple, still open, and maybe even moving. Then, just sort of land there. Notice how different that is than assuming a tight posture, it’s very relaxed, very open. It’s very at ease.
Then, just allow yourself to check out how you’re feeling right now. What’s it like to be you? How your body feels, how your emotions are doing, how your mind is doing. The trick here, the important point is: however the mind and the body and the emotions are doing, just let them be that way. Feeling it, or experiencing it clearly, but letting go of any agenda to somehow manipulate, or control, or deny, or change it. Instead, just letting it be exactly the way it is, and to find some sense of ease with how you’re doing, even if how you’re doing is really not easeful or easy at all. Even if it’s really unpleasant, or somehow stressful, or somehow tight, or whatever. Finding some ease with even that. Letting it be that way, because trying to make it go away just makes it worse, more tight, more unpleasant, more stressful. So, just let it be how it is.
If that’s really difficult—I just want to change it, I need it to go away, I need it to be different. Okay, then accept that you feel that way. Let that be the way it is. One way or another, allow what your experience is to just be your experience, just exactly the way it is, just as bad as it is, as good as it is, as boring as it is, as ecstatic as it is, as jangly as it is, as upset as it is, as depressed as it is, as miserable as it is, or as wonderful. Just give up trying to change it for a while.
A big help for doing that is to step outside the thinking mind, so if that’s available to you, just do that now. What I mean by that is, you can be there, there can be as many thoughts. As always, we’re not trying to change the amount of thinking, but rather, we’re simply not engaging with thought. You can engage with body sensation, you can engage with emotional sensation, you can engage with the sights and sounds, and smells and tastes of the room around you, you can engage with everything except, for now, except thought. Feeling your butt on the cushion or chair, hearing the sound of the heater and the rain and the cars. If you’re meditating with your eyes open—and I do recommend that, although you don’t have to, but I recommend you have your eyes open, resting on the sights, the colors, the shapes, the textures, the patterns, of the room around you, engaging with all of that in simple presence. Just simply being present.
Each time you find yourself engaged with thought, just just drop it—and by drop it, I don’t mean make it go away, I mean just don’t engage. It can sit there and think as much as it wants, meanwhile you are resting in simple presence.
If you want a little something more to hang on to, notice the full body experience of breathing. Not in detail, we’re not focusing on it, just feel that the body is expanding and contracting with the breath, in the simplest way possible. Non-engagement with thought, simply present in the room, feeling the breath going in and out. This is a way of being totally open, because it’s only in the thinking mind that we’re accepting and rejecting, and accepting and rejecting, over and over, but in simple presence, whatever is present, we’re open to it, we’re totally open, totally here.
If you find yourself really working really hard in some way while sitting here, just let go of that. If you’re trying really, really hard to be focused or something, just let go of that. If you want something really big to happen, or you want a big mind-state shift to occur, just let go of that expectation.
See if you can find any ease and any openness, any letting go, any acceptance, any softness, any relief or release. This is the direction, just relaxing and opening, relaxing and opening. Coming into simple presence. If we leave it all—and leaving means getting involved in a mental daydream, getting involved in thought—as soon as you notice, just become lucid in the thought—oh, I’m in a mental daydream, and come back to just being present. Being present in a room full of people meditating is not exciting, particularly, there’s not a lot of really loud, bright, chaotic, stuff going on, there’s not a lot of explosions and helicopters crashing and gunfights.
So, if you’ve trained yourself a lot on that kind of stimulation, or big social interaction stuff,
it can be, at first, challenging to sit in presence, because we’re not used to this level of stillness. So the thinking mind gets real greedy, it wants more and more stimulation, and more and more stuff to chew on, and we’re, in a way, setting it aside, and just saying, just for an hour, just sit there. We’ll feed you more later, but for now, I’m just going to rest in simple presence, and let go of all that stimulation, and all that intensity, and all the dopamine. Instead, I’m just going to feel my body be in the room, and feel some ease, feel some openness, feel some rest.
Over and over again, just return to simple presence. It’s actually very easy. If you find your mind grabbing onto the thinking, like grabbing something in your fist, where you’re grabbing onto a whole bunch of stuff and holding on to it—which is what engagement with thought is like—all you have to do is relax the fist, and the thoughts fall out of your palm. Then your palm is just open and easeful. So, each time that grabbing motion occurs—and notice that that’s a voluntary activity, you’re actually grabbing onto the thought. It may be so automatic you’ve lost the sense that it is a volitional act, but you’re actually doing it on purpose. You have to contract on purpose, like grabbing something with your hand on purpose. You do have agency here. When you find that you’ve grabbed on, just relax again—metaphorically relax the fist—and the thoughts will just pour out of your hand like sand. Then your hand is just wide open, just sitting there, wide open, at ease. So, let’s continue to practice with that for a little while here.
Remember, we’re not trying to stop the thinking, or suppress it, or deny it, or control it. It can think as much as it wants. We’re just not grabbing on, we’re letting the thoughts metaphorically just flow by. Instead, our attention is on body sensation, emotional sensations, the sights and sounds of the room, and so on. Coming into our actual being, not lost in the virtual world of thought. Feeling your legs on the chair or cushion, feeling how you’re connected to the core of the Earth through gravity. Just feel that tug, that’s keeping you on the cushion. Feeling the expansion and contraction in the breath, feeling whatever emotions are arising—maybe it’s frustration, maybe it’s kind of a pleasant sense of contentment, maybe it’s anything else, maybe a whole bunch of emotions at once. Don’t think about them, just feel them. If thoughts are happening about the emotions, don’t grab on to them. If your eyes are open, seeing the sights of the room, hearing the sounds of the room. Coming back into this presence, again and again, with tremendous ease and openness.
Let that fist of doing-doing–doing, just release, just let it go. Don’t make that into a new doing—like you’re trying really hard just let go.
Good. Now, you can continue sitting with that, but you may begin to notice something else is here in the simple presence. It’s not exactly the body sensations, and it’s not exactly the emotional sensations, and it’s not exactly the sights and sounds of the room. It’s not exactly any of that stuff. We could say it’s the stillness behind all that the space of knowing itself. When I say something like “the space of knowing,” there can be an urge to look for that, “I’m going to find the space of knowing, and look at it.” But, it is the thing that’s looking.
So, if that awake space, that Gnostic, boundlessness, is apparent, then come to an even deeper sense of presence in that. It’s not a thought, it’s not a feeling, it’s not a sight or a sound, it’s not a special experience. It’s just the space of experience itself, the awake space itself. There’s no thought that can get at that. There’s no way of looking that gets at that. It is the looking. If you try to be the one finding it, the one looking at it, that’s just some thought and feeling pretending to look at it. It is the looking, it’s just experience itself.
If you can notice that, then contrast that with sights, sounds, feelings, even thought—all of which are moving, all of which are changing, all of which are vividly displaying. For there’s the knowing, but, in a way of talking about it, the knowing is outside of the mind. It’s even outside of the body. The mind and the body are inside the knowing. Notice the difference between them. There’s the stillness and clarity of awake space, and then there’s all the stuff happening within it, including thoughts, including emotions, including feelings, including sights and sounds, etc., and the knowing is perfectly still. It’s never changed, ever. It’s utterly awake, it’s been perfectly complete and pure since beginningless time. Notice how, against this backdrop of stillness, no amount of thinking or feeling or sights or sounds—or anything else—can disturb that stillness. If you make stillness in your mind, it will always become unstill again, because the mind is unstable. Trying to make your thoughts stable can’t work except temporarily, so we do it temporarily, just to allow things to die down a bit. But the real stillness has always been present, and cannot become unstill. It’s the wide open, sky-like, space that knows.
Notice the easeful, open, restful, relaxed, openness of that space. That space welcomes all experience, that space pushes nothing away. That is your true identity—awake space. If you try to look at it from the mind, you will always miss it. The mind is just the sock puppet of awake space. Over and over again, let go of being the mind and the body, and all of that, and just relax into being openness, being clarity, being stillness, being at ease.
If you try to figure it out, you will always miss it. The move into the mind to try to figure it out is already hopeless. If you’re resting as awake space, and then you go, “I wonder if this is it? It seems pretty boring, but maybe it’s it,” and you start checking from the mind, you just lost it. When you taste sugar, you don’t go, “Was that sugar? That must have been sugar, let me figure it out. Was that the taste of sugar?”
Rest as the sky-like awakeness, not as the thoughts and feelings. They will continuously change, continuously come and go, continuously display their wonderful transience. Nothing wrong with that—that’s their nature, it’s the nature of the awake space to be the openness that hosts all that activity. Rest as that openness, not trying to get a particular kind of thought, not trying to get a particular kind of feeling, because that openness is its own unique flavor. A person in the normal mind continuously tries to get a special thought, or a special emotion, or a special body sensation, all the while knowing that it’s just going to go away. And, again, that’s nature, that’s the order of things—fine, they come and they go. No one’s complaining about that, but notice that you can rest as the awake space itself, and not chase after anything, or push anything away.
Very good. So, if this is a good place for you to continue resting, please do that. If this is fairly familiar, then notice something interesting. Notice that, even though I keep calling the boundless space still, it’s actually filled with tremendous energy-like potential. You can feel it. It’s a tremendous potential, and that potential keeps bursting forth creatively in every moment. It gives birth in every moment to a bloody, squalling, writhing, moment—over and over, again. Beautiful, squalling, writhing, bloody, moment, over and over, again. And, what is that? That is the thought, that is the feeling, that is the emotion, that is the sights and sounds, that is self and world and others. The awake space continuously, creatively, gives birth to everything. The body sensations aren’t separate from awake space, they are the expression of awake space upon itself. Thoughts, feelings, world, sights, sounds—it’s all awake space, painting upon itself with itself for itself. All that movement, all that change, is simply awake space dancing, joyously, effortlessly, spontaneously, playfully.
So, from that stillness of awake space, all activity is simply the activity of space bringing us back into our true nature, over and over and over. Letting go of all thought of any kind, just look at what’s having this experience right now. If you can do it as a wordless question, “Who or what is even aware of this moment? What is it that knows this moment?” Look. Look, really deeply. If you’re in your mind, you’ll be saying stuff like, Well, me—or, I don’t know, my brain or something. Those are just thoughts. We’re letting go of that, and actually looking, really looking. Just actually curious. If you’re stuck being miserable, just let go of it, just for a minute, and just actually look. How do you even know you’re miserable? What knows that? What’s awake? What does it mean that the lights are on?
Look directly, nakedly. What is having the experience? Notice that you find openness—a space—and you find knowingness, awakeness, whatever you want to call it, consciousness, experience. And, the very openness of that experience, the fact that it says no to nothing, and yes to everything is a kind of warm, kind, welcoming, presence. So, consciously now, and really connecting with that from the core of awake space, from the depths of awake space, notice this fundamental warmth and kindness and presence. Notice how it fills all of space. It’s not located in one spot, it’s everywhere. There’s a fundamental goodness, and a fundamental openness, and a fundamental sanity and clarity everywhere. See if you can notice this warm, kind, presence, radiating out in all directions, filling all of space, touching every heart, everywhere, but also returning back, or being radiated back from all space, from all beings everywhere. Coming and going, giving and receiving this fundamental presence of kindness, openness, warmth, caring.
Feel that clearly, and from the energy, and the potential, and warmth, but also the uplifted joyous quality of this presence, let’s do a little bit just a short bit of om mani together, like we always do. Again, the sound of the mantra comes from space itself, not from the ego, not from the mind, not from even the voice, but from space itself. So, you just let go, and let the mantra radiate.
[chanting] Om Mani Padme Hum
We need a little more joy and energy.
Now, just feel it in the silence, stillness, openness.
Okay, let’s end that there. Feel free to move and stretch, run to the restroom, whatever is necessary. There’s a—we’ll call it a tug of war—there’s been a tug-of-war since the very beginning of people doing meditation, or doing spiritual stuff, it’s a kind of a tension that’s built into what we’re doing. The tension can be characterized as a question about who’s even doing the activity, and it’s there in all spiritual traditions in one form or another. In Buddhist practice, it’s the contrast between sudden Awakening and gradual effort. The path of accumulation—the path of doing stuff, versus just there it is. But you can find it in every tradition. It’s always there, in Christianity is it Faith or good works that get you to heaven? It’s the exact same question—are you doing it, or is something else doing it, or it’s just happening. And this tension is there in all spiritual activity. Are you doing it, or is God doing it? Is there something to gain and achieve, or is it already there, and you just kind of notice it? It’s been such a central thing for so long, you can probably guess that it doesn’t ever resolve. There’s no right answer.
You’ll see different traditions land really hard on one side of that or the other, usually, but then, because of the nature of the question, they then fill in the other side somehow or another, because you need both sides.
Something that I have found interesting in my own really sad and pathetic meditation path that has taken forever, is that, with no results at all, certain aspects of that have been really annoying and frustrating for a long time, and then suddenly aren’t. It’s weird. It used to be the case that if someone in the front of the room was saying something to me, like, “there’s nothing to do, and even trying to do it is—you’re lost, and you can’t really do it. I would just want to throw my shoe at them, I can’t get it, and it’s making me insane. But, you notice I’m up here saying that, and it’s because—and I don’t mean to imply that there’s one big thing, there’s many little things like this. We’re all somewhere along the journey in various ways, but it’s because you can’t see the thing until you see the thing, and so the example I want to give in the meditation we’re doing, is that I’m telling you to step outside your mind, or not engage with thoughts. And that might be its own kind of struggle thing. If it’s a struggle—please don’t struggle—just attempt to just keep relaxing, and the thoughts just do their own thing. Struggle doesn’t really help.
Notice that’s an attempt, in a way, to allow the mind to calm down, allow the thoughts and feelings to kind of settle a little bit, to let the snow globe that’s whipped up just sort of calm down, get a little clearer, get a little stiller. We’re doing something to do that. We could do a lot more stuff. We could do a bunch of mantra practice, and a bunch of pranayama practice, and a bunch of visualization, and creation phase yidam practice. There’s a lot we can do to make things really still, and all that in our thoughts and our feelings. And it’s super helpful to do that—it’s incredibly helpful, because it’s only when that stuff gets still that you can start to see—to put it in a terrible way—what’s behind all that. Instead of all that thought-feeling activity, the sort of awakeness in which that’s displaying, if the thoughts and feelings are just too big and exciting, you just can’t see the background.
It’s like if you’re in a movie that’s really, really a big action film, and stuff’s happening, and spaceships are flying, and stuff’s exploding. It’s really hard to remember that it’s a physical screen there, to think about the white reflective screen behind all the light. So if you wanted to have an audience see the screen, you wouldn’t have a big exciting film like that, you’d have a still shot of concrete, or something really still, and then you’d start going notice the wrinkles in the fabric of that thing behind the images. You could start to point to it, and because you would not be distracted with all this movement in the ears, with sounds and shaking of the building, you could actually start to see that screen.
So it’s really useful to calm things down. Notice, that’s doing something that’s gradual, that’s the path of effort. But, then something really weird happens, and it can happen really slowly—like in my case, it takes forever to sink in, or it can happen really fast. You notice the screen, and then you keep noticing the screen, and then it’s weird because now they can start playing kind of a busy movie, and you can still notice the screen. Once you’ve seen it, you just get good at seeing it, and then, after a while, you can’t unsee it. There’s always a screen there. So, eventually, when you get really good at noticing the screen, because you’ve just seen it so clearly. You can have a giant action film happening, and it doesn’t matter. You still see the screen. That’s when you go, it doesn’t matter what the thoughts or feelings are doing, the awakeness is just there. You could have seen that all along, you didn’t need to calm anything down—Grace—it was always there.
So that’s how people end up sounding annoying, but it’s true—it is always there to be seen—it’s not more there from practice. So, this is why it’s kind of an irresolvable thing, because effort is required until it’s not, and you realize, it never was, so both are there, and it’s not some final thing, it keeps repeating, so you get good at noticing the screen, and then it just so happens they show a movie that triggers a bunch of stuff from your childhood, and now you’re back in it, and you forget there’s a screen, and you have to start over, calm things down, and eventually come back to, okay there’s the screen again. So it’s not some final, I’ve arrived, and I can never fall out of it. Little by little, under more and more situations, with more and more things happening on the screen, you’re just resting as the screen.
And, of course, this is a metaphor. There is no screen, and, who’s looking at the screen, anyway? The screen sees itself, so the metaphor falls apart. But, notice, we always do walk, we calm things down, we step outside the mind to make it real still, so you can notice, What’s this thing that’s noticing? Oh, there it is, that’s there. And then, when you’ve done that enough that you can’t unsee it, then letting all the thoughts and feelings happen—no problem. But, they will be transformed in a really interesting way at that point.
So, I’ll shut up there. If anything’s coming up you want to talk about, we’ll bring a microphone around—elegantly saunter around with a microphone in a way that cannot be trained, but can only be appreciated—it’s God’s gift. So, if something’s come up for you, raise your hand, and I’ll try to respond to it. Or, if you have a question, as always, remember this is live to the Internet, so even though this may seem like a cozy room of kind meditators, it’s also the open big eye of the Internet.
Questioner 1: Hey, so, there’s something about speaking that seems to perturb the stillness for me, like it seems like as soon as we did the om mani, it’s just nothing could perturb the stillness except my own voice, or something. Then I quiet it out, and let others keep going, and then I was more in contact with awareness itself, but maybe I’m thinking the words before speaking them, or something like that is happening.
Michael: It’s just about the clarity of recognition. So, drop into recognition, and then speak, and then you’ll pop out, and drop into recognition again, and then speak, and you pop out. If you do that enough, you won’t pop out anymore. It’s just a matter of getting used to it. Nothing actually disturbs the stillness, it is the meaning of imperturbable. But you’re grabbing onto—the Mind kicks up, like I was saying over the weekend, the hybrid vehicle at the stop lights, the engine kicks on. It’s like the thoughts kick back up, and you grab on, so you just got to get used to that happening, and noticing that the awareness doesn’t change when that happens. So, it’s a long process of deep recognition, but I would say, acclimatizing to recognition.
Questioner 1: Thanks.
Michael: There’s a weird esoteric teaching—I’m not saying I know this, but it’s interesting, they’re talking about the nadis, the energy channels in the body, and the Prana, the energy in the channels, and they were saying that breath that we use to speak, or the Prana of thinking, is in the side channels. And if it goes into the central channel, it becomes silent, so you literally can’t speak it. I just thought that was interesting. Again, I’m not saying I know that from my own experience, but that’s kind of fascinating.
Questioner 1: Thank you.
Questioner 2: I can see the value of, if I’m super angry, disidentifying with my anger, but the way that you people [laughter] talk about ooh, I am the awareness, I am the awakeness, like what is the deal?
Michael: What the big deal, who gives a fuck? Is that what you’re asking?
Questioner 2: Just well that’s like more disidentification for usefulness and like there’s something way more than just the pragmatism of, oh I can get better at things in my life if I don’t get hooked on everything that passes through. It just seems like there’s something more, something so essential…
Michael: It is essential.
Questioner 2: Can you talk about that more?
Michael: Do you know who you are? Who are you? We can say that I was born in such and such a place, in such and such a time, with this culture, to these parents, with these siblings, or whatever. All of that, but does any of that answer the question? And, if it doesn’t, that’s already kind of interesting. You might want to know who we are, deeply. And it doesn’t mean like what we like and dislike, or anything like that, something much more fundamental. Something much more essential, something much more true, than all those kinds of random incidentals.
People sometimes do this thing on social media, like here’s a pile of my books and DVDs, and this is sort of a definition of me. If you like these books and DVDs, you know what kind of person I am, and I mean that’s cute, but what a pile of random bullshit. It’s just likes and dislikes—that’s not a person. That person has no idea who they are. None. I’m a Disney film—no you’re not. That’s not a crime, I’m not against them, I’m saying, wouldn’t it be interesting to look a little more deeply than your bookshelf or your DVD collection, or your Pinterest, and actually start to come into some literal self-knowledge? So, I’ll just say, it has to do with that. And to me, that is incredibly important, and maybe, even to use your word again, essential.
What I’ve discovered, anyway, and I think other people tend to discover this as well, is, I had not the slightest clue who I was. And the more that you define it with these likes and dislikes, the less you are, you’re even more lost about who you actually are. It’s 90 degrees from everything. So that’s one answer, anyway. Notice, the big question is, “Who is even having this experience?” It gets right to it: Who is having this experience? What’s the answer? Look. Anyway, thanks, it was great having you at the retreat.
Questioner 3: Hi Michael, I just wanted to follow up on that question. I don’t know if I’m going to get all of your question I didn’t hear the first part, but the last part, I think, once you answer the question, who you are, once it’s answered for you, and you no longer identify with the likes and the dislikes, and whatever else might identify you, the bigger question is, Why you’re here, and what you need to do, and how—this is something that I’m grappling with. Once you are able to drop in and stay consistently drop in that doesn’t necessarily answer that question.
Michael: Really?
Questioner 3: Well, maybe I’m doing it wrong, so please enlighten me, but that’s something I’m constantly going back and forth. Am I doing what I’m supposed to be doing? Am I doing it right, or am I not doing enough, or should I just stop doing and just stay in the dropped in state.
Michael: As I said, the awake space itself is still, but it also has tremendous energy. It’s like potential energy, and that energy doesn’t need your mind to know what to do. It’s already doing it, and it never stops doing it. So, it’s not like a job description, life is a continuous flowing forth, and all you do is stop trying to figure it out, and relax into doing it. But it may really conflict with what our mood board says we are, what our ego wants us to be, or what we’re trained to do, or any of that stuff, although probably not, probably if we really worked with something for a long time, it’s probably part of that.
I will say that, again, this is where it flips to that, Are you doing it, or is it happening through you? Is it just happening, and the stuff that’s just happening is already happening. It never stopped, it didn’t go dormant, it’s trying to happen all the time. So you don’t have to figure it out, just let go of trying to figure it out, and you will see it’s already doing it. I know, from one side of the equation, that sounds like bullshit, but the minute you notice it, you will realize, it was always doing it, since the first day you remember of your life, you’ve been doing it.
Questioner 3: So the impetus doesn’t come from…
Michael: The creative thing that’s making self and world shine into existence right now is creating all the activity that you do. If we were in nondual Shaiva Tantra, it’s called iccha-shakti, it sounds very like Crowleyan or something, “the power of the will”, but it it doesn’t mean what I want to do, it means just what the energy already is doing, and it’s always doing it, and maybe everything that your thought and feeling mind has caused you to create has just been a big distraction from the thing it’s always doing.
Questioner 3: Thank you.
Michael: Yep.
Questioner 4: I’m curious about your encouragement to keep your eyes open. I’ve meditated with eyes closed, and feel like that helps me go deeper, so I’m kind of curious to see what you think are the benefits of keeping your eyes open.
Michael: It’s about whether we’re trying to still the mind, or, once we wake up, to be able to walk around in a waked-up place. So, if you’re in the thing of trying to get into an altered state of stillness and quiet, so that it’s easier to notice, then during that part, closing your eyes might help. But the minute you’re like, okay, this is the awakeness, now I want to get up off my meditation cushion and walk around while remaining here—having your eyes open while you’re meditating obviously makes that a lot easier. So it’s kind of stage dependent.
Certainly in most nondual traditions, they just keep the eyes open the whole time, because if you don’t get used to closing your eyes, you learn to meditate with your eyes open just fine. I have a zillion year background of meditating with my eyes closed, and so for a while—there was a year of like, whoa, that feels weird. But, after a while, it’s just no problem. But the whole point is: nothing changes, right?
Questioner 4: Yeah, it’s helpful, thank you.
Michael: Other stuff coming up out there?
Questioner 5: Hi, not really sure how to ask the question, but I’ve noticed that it seems easy to get lost in thinking daydreams when they’re especially related to like romantic or sexual stuff, and so there’s one like a thought that can like wrestle with that—that’s not really happening now, be present. But then there’s also just enjoying the show, so do you have any advice?
Michael: There’s so much I could say there, but I will just say, if that’s where you’re at, then do that. Eventually you’ll recognize that just nothing’s going on. It might just be that that’s fun and interesting, but it might be that there’s some fundamental discomfort that you don’t want to feel, maybe. Or, maybe that there’s a deeper joy, deeper fun in not daydreaming, maybe even deeper than that. Or, coming back into a daydream, but completely lucidly for once, stuff like that. You know what? Daydream all you want, and when you’re tired of it, here’s what you do, okay?
All right, let’s end that there. As always, it’s really wonderful to sit with you guys.
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